If you DON’T want to spend ⅓ of your life making someone else’s dreams come true…
If you crave location independence, limitless income potential, and a career that honors your gifts, talents & strengths…
Then this interview (which you can also see on my YouTube channel) is going to CHANGE YOUR LIFE. The one-and-only Amy Porterfield is sharing her step-by-step breakdown of what it takes to quit your job and move in the direction of your wildest dreams.
You’ll hear Amy talk about:
- ✅ The Sweet Spot Test: 4 questions to help you start the best side hustle FOR YOU.
- ✅ 5-steps to creating your Career Exit Strategy, so you can transition to being your own boss with confidence and ease…
- ✅ How to navigate naysayers, overwhelm, and crippling self-doubt…
- ✅ And all the tips you need to successfully leave your 9-5 – so you can call the shots in your own life, work when you want to work, and stop trading time for money…
Hey Posse! What’s up? It’s Alex.
And I’m so excited to bring you this exclusive interview with Amy Porterfield! Amy is a true inspiration.
I met her years ago when we were both corporate gals. I was working as Creative Director at Mindvalley, and Amy was working with mega-brands like Harley-Davidson and legendary performance coach and speaker – Tony Robbins.
After one fateful boardroom meeting – and witnessing the lifestyle, financial, and work freedom that an online business had to offer, Amy developed her 9-to-5 exit plan and never looked back.
She went on to quit her corporate job and build her own multi-million dollar business. And since then, Amy has helped hundreds of thousands of entrepreneurs turn in their two weeks’ notice and trade burnout for freedom, income, and impact. Her work has been featured in Forbes, Fast Company, CNBC, Business Insider, Entrepreneur, and more.
Her company has twice been awarded as one of the fastest-growing privately held companies in the U.S.
Amy is full of SO MUCH WISDOM – and I’m so honored to have had the chance to sit down and chat with her.
Now let’s get into the interview!
How to Quit Your 9-to-5 Job & Have More Freedom
Hey Amy! I am so excited you’re here and I just have to say, first of all, congratulations, your book came out yesterday.
Oh my God, I can’t even believe you’re saying that. Holy cow, I’m so excited.
I know it’s been like a labor of love for you and it must just feel like so satisfying to finally let out your baby, your book baby to the world and share everything you’ve been working so hard on.
Best feeling ever. I just know it’s gonna change lives. And yes, it’s been a labor of love. There’s been a lot of blood, sweat and tears that got to this day and so I’m just gonna celebrate and have a good time.
I love that. And I am waiting for my copy to arrive! It’s not here yet. To anyone who wants to go and grab a copy right away, you can go to her website Two Week Notice, grab yourself a copy of Amy’s book. Honestly, I know it’s gonna be incredible. And one of the things I love the most about your story, Amy, is the first time I heard you share it, I was like, “Oh my gosh, my story is so similar.” And I’m sure you get that a lot from people who have followed your work and read your content and take your programs.
But you were in corporate and then you decided, okay, enough is enough. I’m gonna quit this job and I’m gonna start my own thing. And I think a lot of people when we hear quit my job, it feels like this very last minute. Like “I quit!” and we storm out. But I’m curious, how did, how did you come to the conclusion that it was time, your job was no longer working for you and it was time to leave and did you feel like ready? Was there a line in the sand where you were like, now’s the time?
I’ll get to the punchline first then I’ll back up. The day I left my job, I did not know if I was ready. I was terrified. I started second-guessing myself. I thought, what am I doing? However, I was really clear on my why which kind of pushed me out the door even though I thought maybe I’m not ready. So I’ll, I’ll put a pin in that for a minute and come back to it. So I have always been a corporate girl. I’ve always had a 9-to-5 job since the day I left college. Actually, even in college, I did. And so I really was comfortable with climbing the corporate ladder.
I was comfortable having a boss because that meant someone could kind of guide me and then I could do a really good job and then get promotions and awards and you know, a pat on the back ‘atta girl kind of stuff. And I felt good. I felt validated. I loved a paycheck every other week and paid vacations and benefits. I did well as a 9-to-5er. However, here’s what happened...
I’ve had many, many, many jobs. Someone asked me to run through all my jobs and I was embarrassed cause I’m like, I worked at a dating service, I worked for Harley Davidson Motorcycles, I worked for many marketing companies, nonprofits, publishing, I have done tons of things, probably flip-flopped a little too much if I was being honest. However, for the last almost 7 years of being a 9-to-5er, I worked for Tony Robbins, so motivational coach Tony Robbins. And I got to work on the content that Tony would share on stage at Unleash the Power Within and Date with Destiny. It was a really cool job. I traveled to Fiji to London and really all over the place the Philippines.
I got to travel, I got to work with Tony, I got to work on amazing content. So someone might stop me here and say, and they paid me well and they might say, why would you ever leave that? And I did hear that a lot. Here’s what happened though. One day when I was at the Tony Robbins offices in San Diego, he invited a bunch of business owners, online business owners to the office. He was doing more online, starting to sell his digital courses and he wanted to talk to these people about how they were doing it, which is so smart to find out other people’s business models.
So Tony brought a bunch of these people in all men. There weren’t a lot of women doing it at the time. They were internet marketers, they had digital courses, memberships, and masterminds. And they were in real estate, dating, relationships, investing. All different walks of life. But here’s the thing, he went around the table and they started to talk about their businesses. Oh and for the record, I was called into the meeting to take notes. I wasn’t even invited to the main table. I’m at a side table taking notes, listening to these guys talk about their businesses and I had no idea who they were. Now for my OGs that might’ve been around for a while, we’re talking Frank Kern, Brenda Bouchard, Edmond Pagan, Jeff Walker, like big names! These are the guys that were at the table.
And I didn’t know who they were at the time, but this is what happened. Tony said, tell me about your businesses. And they started talking about what they do in business and each of them went around, they talked about the time they got to spend with their family, how creative they got to be. They called the shots, they talked about the money they were making, the impact they were making. And all I heard was freedom. Like I literally put my pen down, I wasn’t taking any good notes and I just looked around like what is happening here? And they presented a way of living and a business model that I had never heard of.
And so in that moment I thought, one, I’ve never been free, I’ve always had a boss. They’re talking about calling the shots, I’ve never called the shots. And number two, they’re talking about lifestyle freedom and financial freedom. Something I had never, ever had. And in that moment, something clicked. I wasn’t necessarily unhappy in my 9 to 5 job, although it was a hard, hard job. I wasn’t unhappy. But in that moment I realized what I was lacking and what I wanted more than anything. So from that moment, I thought, I don’t know what these guys are doing. I don’t even understand their businesses. I’m gonna get a piece of this. I want this.
And so what happened was it was another year before I officially left my last job with Tony Robbins. It took a whole year, but I built a runway. I did everything I needed to do. So the day I left, I could start my own business and fast forward, be here 14 years later with a multi-million dollar business and thriving. It was that runway I created to do it right. And that’s what I outline in Two Weeks Notice how to quit your job with courage and dignity, but set yourself up for success. So when you do quit, I’ll give you the guide to exactly how to build a business.
So that’s kind of my story of how I got outta corporate.
Oh my gosh, I love that so much. And yeah, our stories are so similar because at the time that I met you at that event, I think it was like 2009 maybe, I was working as the creative director at MindValley. And the same thing, like I had just discovered personal development, just discovered online marketing, was planning to go back and go to law school. And I had this like, come to Jesus moment, I’m like, “I don’t think I wanna do that.”
And went to events all over the world. And when I quit my job, so many people said to me, “Are you, are you nuts?” Like why you’re traveling the world, you’re working for an incredible company. You’ve grown in the company. And for the exact same reason, I just felt like my soul needed the freedom. And yes, while I have this amazing life and I was a very good 9-to-5er like you, there was something kind of yearning in my soul for more. And freedom is 100% it. And I think everyone in the posse a hundred percent like freedom.
We’ve talked about this so much is sort of that number one value. But unlike you, I didn’t really have a plan. I like pulled the plug because I just had to move across the world from Malaysia back to Canada. I had no plan whatsoever and really felt like I spent way more time than I wanted to. Digging, digging kind of out of my like pit of despair after leaving this company where I was this rockstar and then having to start from scratch. And so I know that this, you tell this story about how you, you had the date that you were gonna quit written on a post-it note. Let’s talk about that.
Yeah. I love this so much because I wanna know how you felt that day that you woke up and you’re like, today’s the day.
I remember it like it was yesterday. So when I talk about in the book how to create a runway to quit your job, one of the biggest action items you’re going to do is choose your exit date. And it could be 3 months from now, 6 months from now, a year from now. But I caution let’s not make it longer than a year. Now we’re just stepping into fear and excuses that are not necessary. And so for me, it was six months because once I had that meeting I started to like go to conferences, buy digital courses, watch videos, all about what these guys were doing and talking about.
So I immersed myself and I came up for air like 6 months later and I thought, I’m loving this. I’m loving what I’m learning on the side. I’ll never leave this job if I don’t actually set a date and commit to it. And so I set a date six months out, you’re right, wrote it on a post-it note, put it on a mirror where I would see it every single day. And I wouldn’t just look at it, I would ask the question, what do I need to do today to get me closer to committing to that date and actually doing this?
And it might mean I need to make a phone call and ask a friend a question about the business they started or listen to a podcast or watch a video or buy a digital course or pick up a book or anything to get me closer to that. I needed to be fully immersed in committing to that date. And so fast forward 6 months later when the date happened, I was driving out of the San Diego offices, I had this little white car. Driving out the sun was setting, my car was filled with boxes of all the stuff. I’d been there a long time and all the stuff that I was taking with me and the Beatles song Here Comes the Sun came on the radio and I remember thinking this is a sign, this is going to work.
I was filled with so much fear, so much doubt. And if someone in that moment told me don’t do it and here are all the reasons why I probably would’ve listened to them. And so just driving out it was like, what am I doing? But here’s the thing, I knew my why was clear and this was my why at the time. I no longer wanted to be told what to do, when to do it, or how to do it. I didn’t want to be on someone else’s time or someone else’s dime. I wanted to call the shots in my own life, which meant I needed to learn how to call the shots in my business. And so my why was so clear that even though the fear would knock me down, that why would pick me up and kind of push me out. And that day my why was definitely pushing me out.
So one thing I wanna say to that is when you are deciding to leave something behind, and most likely, like right now we’re talking about a 9 to 5 job, but whatever isn’t serving you and you want to step into a new life, be careful who you tell. Not everybody deserves to hear your dreams. And the reason for that is twofold.
Number one, there are natural naysayers out there “That will never work. Why would you ever do that? You’re crazy.” But there are also a lot of people out there that would love to do what you’re doing, but they’re too afraid. So they’re gonna project all their fears on you and tell you all the reasons why it won’t work. Sarah Blakely of Spanx recently said that when she decided to start her company, she cut the feet out of her pantyhose. And that was her first prototype. And she said at that moment she told hardly anybody because she would’ve believed all the reasons why she shouldn’t do this.
When we’re that vulnerable, when it’s that scary, we’re impressionable. So be careful who you tell. I told precisely three people, my brand new husband, I had just gotten married. So of course he needed to know and he was all for it. My mom who thinks I could land on Mars tomorrow and like I could do anything kind of thing. And then my best friend who was just kind of on this journey with me and she worked at Robbin’s with me. So she kind of helped me navigate it. Three people only until the very end when I left because I knew I needed to hold it sacred. So that’s one of my biggest pieces of advice.
Ugh. I got goosebumps when you said not everyone deserves to hear your dream. It’s so true. I mean, I say to everybody, like if you’re looking for reasons why not to step out of your comfort zone, they’re really easy to find. Find them everywhere. Right? Like if you’re looking, you’ll find it. And so it’s important to not, you know, ask for people’s opinions and let that really affect truly what’s in your heart. Yes. And you talk about, you talk about this concept and I think it’s related, this idea of unbossing. What does that mean?
Okay, yes. I love this. It’s this concept of unbossing. And what it means is that, well I’ll put it in my context first so people can understand. I’ve had a boss all my life. So when I was born, I was born to a very strict father. It was his way or the highway, he was naturally my very first boss. And so I grew up with a really strict dad. And then I went into the work world and I had bosses at every turn, usually male bosses. And so I got used to going to a male for validation, going to my male bosses, is this good? What do you need? How, how can I shine?
How can I get the validation from you? And so then I went into, I quit my job, became my own boss and looked around and thought, no one’s telling me what to do. Which is a really surreal feeling in the beginning. And so I got by for a while and I started to believe that I could lead myself. That’s what unbossing is, is the process of starting to believe and prove to yourself that you and you alone can lead yourself without someone else telling you what to do. Now some people listening and they’re like, yeah, I’ve been like that my whole life.
Other people are starting to shake their heads like, oh yeah, I always have had a boss that it is easy for me to follow in that respect. And so I went out on my own and you think my unbossing story would end there. Like, great, I don’t have a boss anymore, I’m gonna navigate this on my own. But here’s what happened to me about four years into having my own business, I was going to hit my first million-dollar year. So at the end of that fourth year, I was at $950,000 in revenue, which is a long way from making about $150,000 in my corporate job.
And so at that time I was in a mastermind and this one guy was there and we became really good friends and he proposed, I can help you do X, Y, Z, why don’t I become a 50/50 partner in your business? And so we had talked about like some stuff he could help me with, but he went big. He’s like, I’ve got an idea and I’d like to tell you that it took me a long time and a lot of legal contracts and a lot of discussions and thought to make the decision. But no. One night, one night I went to bed, thought about it, woke up the next morning and I said, let’s do this. I gave 50% of almost a million-dollar business away to someone who saw potential in me. Talk about going back to my boss ways I felt comfortable having a boss.
Now he didn’t step in to be my boss, however, he took that role, I let him have that role, I gave it to him. All of a sudden I was asking him his opinion of should I do this or shouldn’t I do that? I was getting approval from him. I was looking to him when things were a problem. Like are we gonna be okay? I stepped right back into it to the point that we would get on calls, we would have a strategy session. I would get off the call with no joke, 20 action items to his 0. I let him step into the business in such a big way that I lost myself. So one morning I woke up, this was years into it, we had done great, we had made multiple millions of dollars together. The business was thriving. I was a shell of a person. I might as well have been going back to my 9-to-5 jobs. I was an employee and I wasn’t happy and I knew I had lost control. So I went to him and said, I wanna get out.
And what happened was a full year of we couldn’t agree to a number, we couldn’t agree how it was going to happen. And I literally thought we would have to dissolve the business that I had birthed like this was my baby and, and a multimillion-dollar business. And cause we couldn’t agree, I thought we’d have to dissolve it, which was what we were starting to talk about. And I thought in my head, if I know how to make money online, I could do this over, I can burn it down and build it back better. And anybody listening right now, I promise you, if you learn how to make money online, no one can ever take that away from you ever. You could always start over if you need to.
And when I finally had that confidence, I said, okay, I’ll burn this down before I ever give it up. And if I don’t have to burn it down great, let’s try mediation. So we went to mediation and came to a number that both of us could agree with. Cause I had to buy ’em out. And I have never looked back. And the punchline of that story. I’m kind of giving it away cause I talk about it more, more in the book. I went from a $5 million year to a $16.5 million year the year I officially unbossed myself.
And the reason I made that huge jump is because I knew who I was. I believed in myself more than anything. I finally said, no more going back to let someone else lead me. I will figure this out. And that’s what I want my book to do. I want it to give the courage and the confidence of someone to realize you’ve got this you can do this on your own. You do not need anyone else. And so anyway, that’s a long way to say unbossing is absolutely necessary for anyone who feels comfortable being led or has a boss.
Everything you said, I was like, oh my god.
I love that our stories are so aligned. You worked for a really big company. MindValley is fricking amazing. And so you left something great behind. So some people are listening, they’ve got a great job. Golden handcuffs are real. They will keep you playing small when it’s good enough that you’re not gonna leave. Other people are listening and they’re like, I hate my job and it’s not really important so I’m out. But anyway, I love that our stories are aligned.
Me too. And I was really bad at unbossing myself as well because I left, I left MindValley and then I would find myself in partnerships, in, in consulting deals. It was always like, I’m pretty sure I know this, but like I didn’t quite truly allow myself to really step into my power and lead. And so that is so beautiful and such an important concept I think for everyone to realize is that you can figure it out. And also that feeling of not knowing is normal. Everyone goes through it. So just because you feel that little bit of like imposter syndrome doesn’t mean that you need someone to come in and tell you what to do, really like trust that you know, and trust your intuition on it.
Absolutely. I love that you said that. Even if you get my book and you have a guidebook of how to build a business. I go through the whole foundation, you will still find yourself confused at times. You will still look around and think, “I have no idea what I’m doing.” Very, very normal. Yeah. You get more resilient to figuring things out and realizing you can be resourceful. That just comes with time.
Just like you said, once you learn how to make money online, I mean that’s the job security that an actual 9-to-5 will never give you. And then being resourceful and realizing that, like I can figure this out. And there are people out there like you who are literally giving the roadmap. Like, you, you can do this. You hinted at something when you were telling your story and I think it’s similar to unbossing in a way because I think it has to do with personal boundaries.
But how have you found your life has really changed since going from a 9 to 5 you know, to working for yourself, to working with a partner, to then working with yourself again and how do boundaries come in? Because I know that feeling of like sitting down at your desk and like, especially on days where I don’t have calls, I’m kind of like what am I gonna do with my day? So how do you, how do boundaries, like how are those reflected in your business and your day-to-day?
Okay, I love that you bring this up because in the beginning I didn’t have many boundaries and so what it looked like is I left a job where I was probably working 70, 80 hours a week. Sometimes, especially if you add the travel to it thinking okay, I’m gonna go out on my own and you know, that idea of sipping Mai Tais on the beach with the laptop on your lap. I kind of thought that was going to be my life. I just bought into that and then realized, wait a second, I might be working like a hundred hours a week. I would go into my office in the morning and then no one would tell me, okay, it’s time to go home or not. You know when everyone’s going home around you, you’re like, oh.
Like no, none of that happens when you become an entrepreneur in the very early stages, you have zero boundaries. And so what happened was I found myself working my life away for probably a good 2 years. Anyone listening, let me tell you right now, it’s not necessary. I did this wrong and I talk about all my mistakes in Two Weeks Notice. So what happened though is I was newly married and I had this wonderful husband that I mad I was madly in love with, say to me, “I don’t even see you anymore. I don’t even recognize you like you are, you are buried your head in your computer every minute. And I think we’re losing ourselves.”
And that freaked me out. Like that was the one most important thing in my life. So when my husband said like, this isn’t working, I had to start reevaluating and around that time came my non-negotiables and I talk about non-negotiables in the book and how you can create them yourself, but they’re basically stakes in the ground saying, okay, this is what I will do or I will not do. And we’re talking a short list. So you commit to them, you could do them on day one of being a brand new entrepreneur or wherever you are in your journey, you can start now. But mine looked like I am not going to work weekends.
I wasn’t perfect at it, but it started to pull me back. I’m not going to work late into the night. I have a six o’clock cutoff time, that’s when I’m done working. And then other non-negotiables, like I am going to have coffee in the morning with my husband. I know it sounds silly, but his love language is quality time and that’s what he wanted from me. So I made a commitment to start doing that. But those little boundaries allowed me to start finding like myself again. I was starting to lose myself again, which kind of happens. There are seasons of entrepreneurship where that can happen. But let me fast forward to today because there’s something I did a couple years ago that I wish I did literally from the beginning.
I and my team work a 4-day work week. So we work Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, eight hours a day. And unless we’re launching, which is just a few times a year, we do not work on Fridays, Saturdays or Sundays. And this has changed everything for my entire team. I thought maybe our revenue would go down. It did not, but it gave us a sense of enjoying our lives cause I think happy team members, happy business owners do really well in business. Jay Shetty just shared a quote with me, he’s an author and he has a book on love coming out and he said the people that are happiest in their home life take bigger risks in their businesses. And I believe that like if I’m grounded in my personal life, I feel like I’ll do bigger things in my business life. So anyone listening that’s just getting into this, protect your mental health, protect your physical health, protect your relationships, you will make more money and a bigger impact when that is taken care of.
Yeah, absolutely. Oh my gosh, I agree with that so, so much and, and like you said, you know, it is part of the growing pains of starting a business, but there are steps you can take, there are mistakes you can avoid from learning from someone who’s done it before you and then you’ll still figure it out on your own as well once you really learn to honor your own boundaries and what’s a non-negotiable for you. So I absolutely love that.
So what advice would you give to everyone listening who’s like, oh my gosh, Amy speaking to my soul. I know I wanna leave my job. Even if it’s like the golden handcuffs you know what I’ve been knowing for a long time that even though it’s good enough, it’s not for me. How do you start crafting an exit strategy?
Okay, the first thing you’re gonna do is you’re gonna get clear on your why. Why do you wanna be your own boss? It could be as simple as mine. I don’t want anyone telling me what to do, when to do or how to do it. I’m done with that. Or it could be bigger. Like one of my students, she has an autistic son and she wants to be more present and she wants to be able to help him in bigger ways. Working at a 9 to 5 job, she does not have the flexibility to do that. There are so many different reasons why you might wanna be your own boss. Just get clear on yours with no judgment, whatever it is great. So once you have your why and it means something to you.
The second thing is you gotta look at your finances because I don’t sugarcoat the fact that it’s not easy to leave behind a guaranteed paycheck. And so you’ve gotta look at your finances and ask yourself, how much do I really need to make each month to cover my expenses? Now your first second year in entrepreneurship, you’re not remodeling your home, you’re not buying a new car, you’re not going on vacations. We are sacrificing in the beginning. That’s the way you do it because you wanna put any money you make back into the business as much as you can. So we’re going to get scrappy in that first year. You might not make as much as you make in your 9 to 5 job, but that might not be necessary if you’re willing to sacrifice a few things in the beginning. So let’s get clear on the finances.
The other thing that I love my students to do is start a side hustle. So everything I teach you in Two Weeks Notice can be used for a side hustle or a full-time thing. But one thing I did is I started to take clients at night time and on the weekends for a side hustle when I was still working for Tony. So I started to do social media for small businesses and that allowed me to bring in a little extra money. But more importantly, kinda just got my feet wet in terms of doing my own thing. Gave me a little shot of confidence, I love an idea of a side hustle that once you go out on your own you can make bigger.
So from getting clear on your why to looking at your finances and getting clear on that to starting the side hustle and telling just a few people, you have to tell a few people because it will keep you accountable, which is so incredibly necessary. And so those are some of the first steps. And then of course choosing your exit date, those are some of the first steps that will happen during your runway.
And then I’m imagining sort of during that time you’re learning, you’re gathering information, you’re starting small, you’re working your way up. And that’s the way that so many of my students do it with copywriting and it doesn’t look like signing a full-time copywriting client overnight. It looks like getting a few projects and then getting a few more and then maybe one of those projects turns into a retainer client that’s paying you ongoing and there is a roadmap for it. And I’m curious to hear, you mentioned you did social media, obviously a lot of people in the Copy Posse are really big into copywriting and marketing. What if someone’s listening to this and they’re like, yeah, maybe, but I don’t know, I kind of wanna find another side hustle that’s not that. What other side hustles do you or not recommend, but recommend people maybe look into and how do they find out which one is the right one for them?
Such a great question. So when you start to think of a side hustle, most people will start a side hustle based on what they want their business to be about. But we don’t have all the answers. Like I don’t teach social media nor do I do social media for people today. But 14 years ago it was what I knew best. I was doing social media at the Robbins company, I was starting to dabble with it, learn more about it. Like you said, during that 6 months I was buying the courses, reading the books, going to conferences to learn more about social media. So I was competent enough to teach it or do it for other people. So one of the first things is to look at your skillset.
What could you charge for? What do people need from you? What do people often ask you? Like, can you help me do this? Or how do you do that so quickly? Or whatever it might be. Starting a side hustle that is nothing to do with the business you wanna create. That to me is gonna throw you off track. So let’s say that you’re really good at training dogs. You’ve got a dog, you and I love our doodles. So you’ve got a dog and you’re really good at training dogs and you’re like, I could make some side money with this. Maybe that will be my side hustle and then I’ll choose my exit date and I’ll leave a business and become a copywriter. That’s gonna get you out of alignment.
That’s going to have you focus on something that’s not worth your time. So I want whatever your side hustle to be is at least aligned with eventually what you want to create and what you create will likely morph over the years and change dramatically. I’m curious, you might have a different story. When you left MindValley and started your own thing, is what you started, does it look very similar to what you’re doing now?
Similar. So when I left MindValley, I was never a traditional copywriter at MindValley. I was the creative director. So I was more sort of high level in marketing. And then what happened is when I left exactly as you’re saying, I started working with clients who wanted marketing help. And so that was usually like designing funnels and all that. And then the number one thing that people kept asking for was do you know a copywriter? And I was like, well not really, but like I could try it cuz I have written copy before but I had so much imposter syndrome about really owning that skillset. And then I just started doing it and it worked out. And so then I had an 8-year career freelance copywriting and then started the Copy Posse teaching it and now I’m coming back full circle and teaching more marketing. And so it’s definitely similar.
But I love your story and here’s why. And I want people to really hear this where you started morphed into something different. But if you didn’t start with what you started with, you would’ve never known that people are like, “Hey, do you know what copywriter? Can you help me with that?” You have to get into action. Action creates clarity. So don’t think that whatever you’re gonna start with your business is the end all be all written in stone. You can never change it. It will morph if you pay attention and it will morph into something where you’re probably gonna make a whole lot more money if you allow yourself to slowly transition into exactly what you want to do.
But starting off, sometimes it looks very, very different. For me, it was social media, but from there I created a course on social media and my course did so well. People wanted to know how are you creating these courses that are making so much money. So I started to teach course creation, which is now my bread and butter. I would’ve never gotten there if I didn’t start with what I knew it will. You’ll expand, you will grow, you will elevate, get into action is the theme here.
Oh my gosh, I love that you said that cuz so many of my students, right, when they start learning copywriting, they get so fixated on picking the perfect niche and it’s like, you know what, just start writing copy for anybody to start. Yeah. Because yes, my, my niche evolved over time. The clients that I worked with evolved over time and it wasn’t until I got clarity from taking action that I was able to then guide my business in that direction. And so tell me about what you call the sweet the sweet spot test. Okay, so let’s talk about the sweet spot.
So when you’re thinking about, let’s say starting a side hustle or starting a full-time business, there is something that I teach my students called the sweet spot and it’s four quadrants. So the top quadrant is you’re gonna ask yourself, where have I gotten results? What am I good at? What do people ask me about all the time? What comes natural to me, what do I do that is gets results from me or somebody else? So it might be in your business that you’re in right now, you’re 9 to 5 or it might be in your personal life.
So one of my students, she teaches moms how to get their picky eaters to actually eat meals. That’s what she was good at. She literally created an entire business around it. But other students, they’re CPAs and they’re really good at their job. So they’re like, I could do that in a business that I create. So just look at where you’ve gotten results, what people love about you, what do they wanna know from you?
The second quadrant is who do you want to serve and what are their challenges? Because we wanna align what you know and what you’ll teach or do with what people actually need. You’re gonna solve a problem for them. What is the problem you’re trying to solve? So you’re gonna think of that in quadrant two.
Quadrant three is where are people spending money? We don’t wanna create a business around something that people aren’t gonna pay for. So when you think about the topic that you wanna create a business or a side hustle around, ask yourself, are other people doing this and making money? If the answer is yes, that is a good thing, that’s great validation. Are there books about it, podcasts about it, courses about it? Is it out there for people to say, I wanna pay money for this cause I need these results?
The fourth one and probably the most important is what lights you up. Let’s not create any business around something you don’t love. Now, I don’t mean it has to be your end all ultimate passion in life. That is not what most of us create in the beginning, but you have to enjoy it & wanna talk about it cause you’re going to eat, sleep and breathe it for a while. So you gotta enjoy it.
So those are the 4 quadrants: Where do have you gotten results? What solution are you going or what result? What are you going to solve? Number 3 what are people paying for? And number 4 what brings you joy?
I love that. I love especially the 3 and the 4 because number 3 it’s like you hear often people say when they’re just getting started, but so-and-so is already doing that. And it’s like, good, that means there’s a proven market. Like stop comparing yourself to others.
I want a lot of people to be doing what you want to do. I actually think that’s a good thing.
Exactly. And then the fourth one, I remember when I started my YouTube channel and Jackson was like all you talk about is copywriting and YouTube. And I was like, it’s cause I love it. Like I’m literally living and breathing it. And you do, you have to enjoy it. So, so good. So I get this question a lot too, and I’m curious what advice you have. So you have someone who’s in a 9 to 5 they put the date like, okay, 6 months just like Amy I’m gonna do it, I’m gonna, I’m gonna build my business, I’m gonna start my side hustle whatever that looks like. What if they’re sort of afraid of their bosses finding out that, that they have a side hustle? What advice would you give to someone who’s like, but I don’t want my boss or coworkers knowing that I’m doing this cuz then it’s kind of obvious that I wanna leave.
Yeah, this is a big one and I talk about this in the book as well. So you’ve got some options here. One, and I hate to get this technical, but look at what you’ve signed in that job. There might be a clause in some of the agreements that you signed, the contracts that say you can’t have a side business or you can’t make money in this arena if you’re making money with us here. So just look at what that might be if you can because that way legally you’re protected. But more so than that, most people, they can do it, but they’re afraid to do it. Cause you’re right, all of a sudden I’m putting myself out there saying, I’ll write your copy for you, but you’re a copywriter at a 9 to 5 job. And they’re like, what are you doing here? And so two options.
Number one, you could say, I’m just gonna go out and do it and I’m gonna tell my business, I’m creating a side hustle and why this is important to me. If they ask, I’ll let them know, but I’m not gonna advertise it to them. And you just go for it. And a lot of people are just like, I know this is my destiny, I need to leave. I’m going for it. Other people will do it under the radar. It’s not their face on social media, it’s not their name. Maybe they start with a company brand. So they name their company something unrelated to them and they just keep it under the radar. And it’s not top secret, but it’s not in anybody’s face on social media. And then when they quit, they typically bring it to a personal brand if they want to.
So there are ways that you can kind of just ease into this. And what I always say is, you don’t owe anyone an explanation as long as you’re not breaking any rules with your company, meaning they don’t have to know what you’re doing or why you’re doing it, it’s actually none of their business. So I want you to have a little bit of confidence to say like, this is my future. I will navigate this the way that I feel best.
Absolutely. I love that so much. And, and it’s sometimes it’s this idea that we’re actually telling ourselves stories about what will happen when ugh, we’re completely making it up. I’ve had students that are like, I’m afraid to tell my, my boss or my coworkers that I’m learning how to do copywriting. And I’ve had so many of my students turn their 9 to 5 boss into a client because they went to go, oh my gosh, yeah, they went to go leave. And the boss was like, well are you looking for clients because I really want you to stay in this capacity.
And so sometimes we tell ourselves stories about how, how things are gonna go and, and you know, again, like Amy said, it’s important to make sure you’re not breaking any rules and that you’re doing everything by the book. But oftentimes we put our own boundaries and stories that get in our way. And like the entrepreneurial spirit is great. I love that I have team members who have entrepreneurial spirits and are selling things and are creating things on the side. And I think it’s incredible. So before we wrap up, I have one last question for you. If you could give Amy advice, maybe the one I met at that conference 14 years ago, what advice would you give her, and past me, you might as well give past me some advice since we’re both at the same conference. What advice would you give her?
Oh, so much I want to tell her, but one thing I would tell her is that you have to be willing to play a bigger game. You cannot continue to play small. So I say that because when I went out on my own, I was very afraid to put myself out there. I would make a bunch of videos and then not post any of them. And my husband would be like, what are you doing in there all day making those videos? Where are they? Because he’s looking online for him. And I told him, I’m so afraid what my old coworkers are going to say about me doing this. Or like, what is Tony Robbins gonna think when he sees these videos of me teaching social media and all of that?
And he said, babe, I love you so much, but I gotta tell you. They do not care. They are not paying attention like you think they are. Tony Robbins is running an empire. I’m pretty sure he is not worried about the videos you’re creating. And it humbled me and embarrassed me. But he’s right. Like I think everyone’s watching and they care and they have an opinion, they’re likely worried about themselves. And so I was playing such a small game because I didn’t wanna put myself out there.
And another thing, a good friend of mine said, people are gonna have opinions about you online no matter if you do it on day one or you wait and you post your videos a year later, but you’ve been out on your own, people are going to have opinions if they don’t pay the bills. Their opinions do not count. Meaning it doesn’t matter what they think. You’re not gonna be for everybody. That’s literally a chapter in my book. You Ain’t For Everyone, Boo. That’s the title of the chapter. And it’s important to remember that. So the advice I’d give that girl and I’d give you as well is go big, play a bigger game. Get the courage to quit that job.
Put yourself out there, make all the mistakes because you will. But stay in it and play big because the life you can create as an entrepreneur is dramatically different than anything you’ve ever experienced. And I always say the worst day as an entrepreneur, like the day I thought I would lose my business, the worst day I ever had is still better than the best day in a 9 to 5 job because I’m free and I’m calling the shots and I want that for so many more people. So I’m gonna step off my soapbox, but I get very passionate about this.
I freaking love that. And it’s so true. I wish I started putting myself out there sooner for the exact same reasons. And I’ve said this before, when I left MindValley in 2011 and I didn’t publish a single piece of content online until 2019. I was hiding for eight years.
See that’s the thing. And although it’s all worked out, it always says everything works out the way it’s supposed to. Imagine how much easier it would’ve been for you if you played bigger earlier. I think the same thing about myself.
You can hear us talking about it all day and be like, “I don’t know. I don’t know.” Trust us. Do it! Alright, well, Amy, oh my gosh. Thank you so much for this incredible interview. Everything that you shared I know is just gonna speak right into the hearts and souls of everyone in the posse because we’re all here because we love freedom baby. This was so much fun.
Oh my gosh, I love you so much. Thank you for doing this. And I just love that we got to share our stories, hoping to inspire others.
And that’s it! Thanks for reading and let me know your biggest takeaway from this amazing interview in the comments below!
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Ciao for now!