Want to learn how to write binge-worthy emails that your audience. Cannot. Stop. Reading.?
How do you find amazing story ideas to use in your emails?
Want to hear the most OBVIOUS place you’ve never thought of for finding the BEST subject line inspo?
And what is 1 small habit that you could start doing today that would INSTANTLY make you a better storyteller?
You’re getting the JUICIEST answers to all of these questions and more as I sit down with my brilliant and hilarious friend and expert email copywriter, Laura Belgray…
Hey, Posse! What’s up? It’s Alex.
And OMG, I am so excited to bring you another exclusive interview with one of the incredible speakers taking the stage at Posse Fest LIVE, my upcoming LIVE marketing event that, trust me, you DO NOT WANT TO MISS…
You can learn more about the event at the link below and grab your ticket before we sell out, but first…
In this interview, Laura-freakin’-Belgray is going to be teaching us all her tips and secrets for writing personality-rich, drool-worthy, “Omg I can’t stop reading your emails” emails.
I have been a big fan of Laura for a long time – ever since I found out she was the OG copywriter for Marie Forleo.
She was one of the first women copywriters I became familiar with back in 2011 after I left Mindvalley…
And since then I have always been SO inspired by her no-BS real talk and gotta-click copy.
To this day I STILL open every single one of her emails because they are THAT good.
If you don’t already know Laura, get ready because she is brilliant, wildly sarcastic, and a lottttttt of fun.
She is the founder of Talking Shrimp, co-creator of the Copy Cure with Marie Forleo, an award-winning copywriter who has been a professional writer for over 2 decades…
She’s written TV spots for clients like NBC, Fandango, and Bravo, and now helps entrepreneurs and creatives cash in on their unique personalities, become binge-worthy, and get paid to be 100% themselves…
AND she’s the author of the national bestselling book, Tough Titties.
I am telling you, you guys are going to LOVE Laura and will eat up the incredibly brilliant advice she has to give on email marketing that is fun, bold and EASY.
Now, here’s the interview.
Alex:
Hello, Laura Belgray, I am so excited you’re here.
Welcome to my YouTube channel.
Laura:
Thank you Alex Cattoni. I’m so happy to be here.
Alex:
I’ve been looking forward to this chat so much because every time we’ve talked, you know, off offline, we just end up laughing so much and having such a great conversation.
And I know you have been inside my Reign Mastermind, speaking to my mastermind members.
The most exciting news, of course, is that you’ll be speaking at Posse Fest this October.
I am so freaking excited about that. And I wanted of course to introduce you to the entire Posse.
Now, before we hit record, I was like, thinking back, I’m like, when did I first discover the amazing Laura Belgray?
Because I know many of you watching this know of Laura, you know of her work, you know that she’s the co-creator of The Copy Cure with Marie Forleo.
And I have been following her for such a long time.
And so, you know, one, when you came to speak to my mastermind, so excited. One when you agreed to come to
, freaking excited. And now I’m so excited for this conversation.
And the first time I I was became aware of you was back in 2011, we were just reminiscing, at Marie Forleo’s Rich, Happy and Hot Live in New York City.
And I mean, God, that was a long time ago. And I’m just so glad you’re here now talking with me 13 years later, if 2011 was the year that you actually went.
Okay, so we know a lot about what you’re up to now.
I shared your incredible story in the intro, but I think it’s always so cool to sort of hear from, from the people that we look up to in the industry.
Like how did you get into copywriting? Into this world? Like where did it all start?
Laura:
Yeah, well I got into copywriting through magazines ’cause I, my first real job that wasn’t a bartending job or some loser job, bartending is not a loser job. But I was like just out of college, like just wasting my days for a while.
So the first, the first real job job that I had was for a magazine. It was an internship at a place called Spy Magazine.
Spy was like the satirical downtown New York publication at the time.
And if anyone reads New York Magazine like that, it very much has the DNA of Spy. Anyway, I was a terrible intern.
I was on the editorial side and we were supposed to come up with ideas and for stories to pitch, like become journalists.
They wanted to, they wanted us to become editors or assistant editors or whatever.
And I came up with nothing. I never pitched a thing. And the managing editor had to took me to lunch and told me, you know, you can take initiative here.
Oh, when you’re told that you can take initiative, it’s not a good sign. But the advertising side took mercy on me when my internship was up and hired me to be an assistant or whatever. But they assigned me an advertorial.
And so for those who are not familiar, an advertorial is like the page in the magazine that looks like it’s part of the magazine, but it actually, tiny letters at the top says promotion or advertisement.
And I, my assignment was to write one for like a whole page of the magazine on Dewars Scotch. And so I wrote a quiz called Do You Party Like Your Uncle Marty?
And it was to determine whether you were like a cool hipster or an old fart loser.
And if you were an old fart loser, the remedy was drink Dewars. And had recipe in the sidebar.
And ironically ’cause I was still living at home with my parents, an essay on adulthood. And yes. So that was, I didn’t know it really, but that was copywriting.
I mean now we would probably call it content marketing either way. I think the two are very completely integrated.
And from there I went into TV promos, which was my total dream job. Somebody I met at Spy was writing promos for VH1.
Told me what promos were. Like I write the little things during the commercials that are advertisements for the network.
Like I watch a bunch of TV and write little things. And I was like, oh my God, that’s a job. I need that job. I always, I loved TV.
Always wanted to do some kind of, some form of writing that had something to do with TV.
So he helped me get that job. It was the nineties, things like that happened.
I just went in and the person hired me. And so I wrote promos at VH1, Nick at Nite, Nickelodeon, TV Land for years and years. And then speaking of Rich, Happy and Hot Live Marie Forleo, I had met Marie Forleo in hip hop class at Crunch in 2003.
Alex:
Wow.
Laura:
Hated her at first ’cause she had the most slamming body and like hit every move and was always demonstrating and like touched hair.
Her hair, I mean the thick, thick, thick hair that never, even if she sweat the hair, never got like stringy.
Alex:
And who are these people?
Laura:
Who are these people? She’s a mutant. But then she ended up being really nice and we became friends. I couldn’t hate her anymore. We would walk home together.
And years later in like 2009, I was hitting a creative rut in terms of like writing promos for TV, a dream job.
But I still felt, I felt like I have more to say and more to do and maybe I could make more doing something else with my writing and I don’t know what it is.
And Marie was about to have her first live event, her first Rich, happy and Hot Live in 2009. And she knew I was a copywriter and invited me to give a talk on copywriting.
And of course her audience learning about copywriting would want to know about like
direct response, the kind that says buy now, click here. And, but I didn’t make any distinction.
I didn’t have any crisis of confidence about it. I was like, yeah, I know copywriting and I gave a talk Five Secrets to Non-sucky copy, which do apply to any medium.
And people started coming up to me after my talk saying like, hey, I’m a coach or I’m a realtor, I need help with my about page.
Or I don’t know what to put on my homepage or I don’t know what to say in my emails to my list. Can you help me? So I started saying yes to these people and that’s how I ended up writing copy in this world.
You asked how I got into this world. Which, you know, the online space, which I refer to as just the space. It’s such a nebulous, vague blob of a world of different kinds of businesses.
And I ended up segueing into the space entirely ’cause there was no ceiling on what I could earn, what I could charge.
I didn’t have constant homework like writing for TV. I always had a deadline, a net, you know, from the network.
And I found a way to write copy for clients that involved writing in real time, having a, like a one-on-one in real time meeting where I would draw out the gold from what they have in their head and turn it into copy on the fly.
And that way I, that’s how I created it, what I call it hashtag no homework life.
Alex:
I love that. So good. You said so many things.
It just like, were just so spot on. I mean, I think the first thing too, and this is a total sidebar, but you know, going to, to live events that they’re so powerful.
In fact, I met Marie Forleo for the first time at a conference in San Diego in 2009.
And this was like right when she was starting to get started and do her launch and start running her events.
And it’s true, you know, you go to events like people ask me the power of going to events.
Like you go to events and that’s just like where magic happens. That’s where relationships are built.
That’s where people come up to you and they go, “Hey, can you help me?” And I’m so excited to recreate that at Posse Fest because it feels really like
a full circle moment for, for me to have started my sort of freelancing career as an event organizer with Mindvalley and then going to people’s events, meeting some of the most amazing people in the space on, at events and then now doing my own.
I just love that you shared that. And then what I also, I also love is you talking about like how to write non-sucky copy and writing advertorials back in the day.
Which by the way, that word is kind of making a comeback, like it never really did while I was a freelancer.
And now I’ll have students ask me like, I’ve been asked to write an advertorial.
I’m like, oh, this is interesting. It’s just a online advertorial as opposed to a magazine advertorial.
But I do think it’s funny how everything comes back full circle.
Which leads me to my next question, which as someone who’s been a copywriter for, for years, where do you see the future of copywriting going?
You know, what are you noticing in the space, I’m just going to use that word forever now. What are you noticing in the space? What are you seeing changing? What’s not changing?
Laura:
I think, well, what I’ll start with what’s not changing and that is the desire for stories, for entertainment, for infotainment.
Because I think one thing that is changing is things are getting more saturated and people, especially in the space, are signed up to more and more lists and following
more and more accounts and just inundated with people providing what they think of as value which is like actionable tips and how to do this, how to 10x that.
And the things that we tend to gravitate towards are like, what is going to, what looks like a good story? Like everything else feels a little bit overwhelming.
I mean, sure we’ll click on something like this person, you know, added 10,000 people to their list in a day. Here’s how. I’m like, “oh, I want to know.”
But still that is the story. But most of all, we just as humans gravitate to what is going to entertain us or satisfy our curiosity and over what is going to give us something to do, another to do.
So stories are as important if not more important than ever.
I think and like the future of copywriting, I don’t know, like I don’t see that changing. I do see attention spans getting shorter, so it becomes more and more important to cut unnecessary words, make things as concise as possible, only use the relevant details, cut out the, the throat clearing that, you know, the stuff in the beginning that you don’t really need. And get to it.
So that’s, I think that’s something like what about you? What do you see changing?
Alex:
Yeah. I completely agree. I think, you know, I often say like, is it a people’s attention spans getting shorter or is there just so many more options?
Like you think of, you think of Netflix, it’s like you turn something on and if you’re not into it in two minutes, you’re like, I’m just going to go binge watch Love is Blind UK.
And I think that that’s kind of where we’re at right now.
Same with on social, it’s like literally, and you’re onto the next thing, but are still spending hours and hours and hours watching content, reading emails.
And so it really is, I agree, you know, with all of the new trends, with all of the new tools, with all of the tech and AI, and of course I’m going to ask you about AI here in a second is, you know, of course those are, those are changing, but they’re not changing the end goal.
They might be changing a little bit of the process of your workflow, but they’re not making the need to be able to communicate persuasively and pull attention forward and tell stories. They’re not making that obsolete.
In fact, to your point, I believe they are making it more important. And learning a skill like copywriting, whether you’re doing it for clients, whether you’re doing it in your own business, has never been more important with all of the options out there.
And people are so just caught in this, you know, Google defines it as the messy middle, which is this point between when someone first discovers you and buys from you, that used to be such a linear funnel or a linear path that as a direct response marketer,
It was all about like the, you know, the chain reaction marketing of like if they, if we increase the opt-in rate and then we increase this rate, and then we increase that rate and we increase it all through this line of, of action steps, we’re we’re good.
And you know, if someone doesn’t buy from us in the first 30 days, they’re never going to buy from us.
That has never been more untrue. And so that’s changing and it’s just what it’s requiring is for us to really be present and to continue to communicate and stay top of mind with our audience while they’re in that like messy middle of trying to evaluate and figure out, wait, who is the best option for me?
So I completely agree and I think that in fact, AI is making copywriting a more valuable skillset because of that. Because the barrier now to create content online is down here.
Anybody can do it, but it’s really meaning that the people who want to stand out and tell stories and all the things we’re talking about, they need to be up here.
They need to be operating at a higher level.
Laura:
Yes. And that, right, staying connected, staying top of mind. That is, I agree more and more important.
And people take longer to make these decisions and you, you need people to become your super fan.
Yep. You need that. You need those super fans if you want to have a, you know, make the sale down.
Alex:
And have a sustainable business. So that leads me to my next question, which is, I mean, let’s talk about AI because it’s sort of a theme that every podcast, every video, every interview it’s what everyone’s talking about.
I would love to hear your like hot take on AI and how you use it if you use it at all in your copywriting.
Laura:
I mean, my hot take is not that original. It is that AI for writing copy, for writing anything authentic and like that connects and has emotion and is genuinely funny. If you are trying to be funny, it blows. Just blows.
And I don’t everyone will say, a lot of people will defend it and say like, you’re just not using the right prompts.
I have not seen one thing written by AI that connects with me, that makes me think, oh, well that is pretty good.
And AI fans, especially people who are selling AI, who are promoting AI for their own business are going to say like, you just didn’t know it was written by AI.
You can, I feel like you can always tell. And so, but if you can’t tell it’s AI, you think a lazy writer just wrote it and didn’t really put much lover and attention into it.
So it’s like maybe I can believe that a human wrote that, but I, I am not believing that it was really written with love and intention and, and it’s not making me want to read more.
Alex:
Right. It feels totally formulaic.And even if the copywriter replaced the word delve or took out the skyrocket emoji, there are still telltale signs that just make it feel fall flat and feel like everyone else’s stuff.
Like the same story you’ve seen over and over. So like, I think it is worthless for that end result that you need.
I think it’s great for starting, like if, if you are bothered by the blank page and have no idea where to start or how to structure a sales page, or actually I haven’t used
it for sales pages, but, or, and I’ve tried with, tried experimenting with it for emails and it always comes up with a, like a, you know, hey there folks, you know, or ladies and gentlemen presenting blah, blah, blah.
It has just the goofiest voice do ever. But I think it is good for just getting something down on the page that you can work with, that you can be like, okay, this sucks, but maybe this one sentence is good or this is a jumping off point.
I also like using it to brainstorm titles or names of courses or module if I’m creating something a module like, what should I call this?
And sometimes it’ll come up with things that are like, have an element that I didn’t think of. I’m like, oh, that’s actually pretty good.
Like, I created a course recently called Based, it was a bonus for my book, Tough Titties.
And it’s called Unputdownable Binge-Worthy Secrets to Binge-Worthy Storytelling from the Pages of Tough Titties. Mm. And I think it, I think AI or chatGPT came up with like, from the pages of Tough Titties. I liked that a lot. And someone else suggested binge-worthy.
I’m like, oh, right. Duh. Binge-worthy. AI did not come up with that. So it’s helpful for brainstorming things like that.
But I don’t think it understands yet how to write a good, like a compelling newsletter email, like broadcast email or launch email at all.
Alex:
Well, and the thing is too, like you said, it’s like when everybody’s using the same tools, you know, again, if you have to write like a super transactional, like thanks for purchasing this product or something that’s just like, okay, I just needed to get the information out.
I don’t have time to do it. I don’t have a copywriter.
Or if you’re new in business and you’re like, ah, this is all overwhelming, it can be a good starting off point for sure.
In fact, I, I love chatGPT for that reason is because, you know, as the designated writer in my friend group, the number of times people contact me saying, can you just review this email that I’m sending?
And not even from a marketing perspective, but just like, Hey, I want to send this email to my boss, or I want to can, can you read over it?
And I’m always like, run it through chat GPT first, like, see what you can come up with and then I’ll review it.
So I actually use chatGPT as my, like, my first line of defense to be like, Hey, that’s going to give you something, but then please, please, please, people use your personality.
Use what, use what makes you, you use the language that you naturally use.
And I completely agree, it’s a fun brainstorming tool and, you know, building your brand voice and really figuring out how you want to differentiate yourself in this overcrowded marketplace is really important right now.
It’s like, figure out, you know, if you’re not funny, you don’t have to be funny. Like, I laugh out loud at your emails, Laura, but like, you don’t have to be funny.
You could be sassy like me. You could be, you could, you know, be sweet.
You could like figure out what your voice is and then that’s going to allow you to really feel a little bit more confident writing. I love that. Okay. So yeah.
Laura:
Wait, wait. I just want to say one more thing that it cannot do that I think is the element that makes stories pop, that makes, that gives them voice is specificity, is concrete details.
Yes. Like if you wrote a story about somebody being demanding, if you said that, like, we just had a house guest who was demanding an entitled, that’s one thing if you said, we just
had a house guest who was upset that we had a Pellegrino and not Perrier, but still drank it all and didn’t replace the bottles in the fridge.
Like that’s, that’s a story now. So it’s those concrete details that give us story grip that keep us reading that make it feel effortless to read and keeps us from skimming over it.
And because those where it’s abstract and just ideas like adjectives, right.
Demanding and entitled, we just tend to like, or we want evidence.
You know, that’s what we might be intrigued by that, but then like, show us show don’t tell, show don’t tell is a the refrain of, you know, good creative writing.
And any kind of writing and AI can’t do that for you.
Alex:
Right. Or it’ll just make up some very generic story that like absolutely makes you feel nothing.
And so I love, and to be able to use AI to be like, oh, that’s an interesting concept. Now how can I pull examples or stories from my own life to actually give that any sort of meaning or make it interesting to my reader.
You talk about something, and I love this so much, and I, every time I talk about it, I’m like, my friend Laura says, you talk about something called the value trap.
So of course you’ve done so much different types of copywriting and content writing over the years. You’re very well known for email copywriting.
I love reading your emails and you talk about something called the value trap in the sense that value isn’t necessarily what a lot of people think it is.
Because oftentimes when copywriters or marketers or business owners sit down to write an email, they’re like, oh, I know I need to email my list and I need to provide value. What is the value trap?
If you can talk about that and, and what are some ways around it?
Laura:
Yeah, I think that value, the concept of value in marketing has just, just has such bro-y origins. You start to, once you start becoming marketing aware and studying marketing copywriting, you’ll hear everybody say, deliver value.
You know, I just dropped a massive value bomb. Like, did you hear that Value Nation? How valuable was that?
And you start to think like that the only form of value is an actionable tip, right?
Something that you can take and use and implement. And I would argue that there are so many other forms of value, especially that we look for in our inbox, because we are looking to be entertained and moved.
So you are providing value if you distract me or enter, entertain me.
It’s valuable if you make me laugh, you’re providing value if you make me see something that I didn’t see before and shift my perspective, or if you inspire me to try something new, or just if you make me feel less alone.
And that’s a big one. Like, okay, I feel so much less crazy. So thank you for that. But truly, I’ll be like, I’m slapping things around here if I read an email from you and I’ll be like, oh my gosh, thank God that actually happens to Laura too. Like, like it really is just a story.
And I love that so much.
Alex:
Thank you. So like saying the quiet part out loud. Yes. That is value. It is.
And admitting your flaws that so that other people can say, oh, I’m not the only one.
And they feel permission to be more themselves and permission to talk about those kinds of things. So that those are all different forms of value that are not the traditional bro-y like actionable tips kind of.
Now I’m going to question every time I use the word value of like. I need, we need a new word for value.
But one of the best ways that you add value in your email marketing and all of your different marketing materials is through storytelling.
And I would love for you to share with the Posse how you come up with story ideas.
I get this question all the time, and I think sometimes it can feel like, oh God, I need to go find a story.
Or do I just magically like have stories that I pull from? What is your process for finding great stories to use in your email marketing?
Laura:
Yeah, I mean, I am always on the lookout.
Like, ever since I started blogging in 2009, I’m always on the lookout for something to talk about, to retell for something that feels like a story.
And I find stories in just little moments. So like, so say my husband is, this became an email, my husband is standing there eating raisin brand from the bowl and complaining, he’s like,
so much for two scoops, look how few raisins are in my Raisin brand. And he was very upset about the ratio.
And I was like, okay, I got to tell a story like that because oh, because I said to him, well then, you know, we have a box of sun made raisins, why don’t you dump a bunch of those into your cereal?
And he is like, no, that’s not how this is done. That’s against the rules. You can’t do that.
That’s not how the game is played. And so my email, I don’t always know what it’s going to be about, what is going to be the term, what is going to be the point.
But once I’ve written it, like at a certain point I get to like, oh, that’s the meaning of this, this is what I pull out of it.
And for me, for that one, it was like, he is a rule follower. It’s probably partly in his German stock, like from on his dad’s side.
And, but some of us can’t deal with rules and don’t play by the rules.
And you know, if like, hi, I’m one of them and if you’re like me, then this thing is for you.
Like, if you’re a rule breaker like me, then this thing that I’m offering is for you. We’ll show you how to break the rules.
And I don’t even remember what I was promoting, but you can always, you know, sometimes you have no idea when you start telling a story, you’re just like, this was interesting or this is funny, this is something I would write about to a friend.
And that’s where I like to start. Like I would, I report this to a friend. If yes, then it’s a story we’re telling.
Sometimes you have no idea where it’s going to go and you feel like, well this won’t, this won’t provide value if it doesn’t have a point.
Sometimes it provides value without any discernible point, but it’s nice when you can pull out, sometimes you find it as you write it like, oh, that’s what my comment is on this story.
Alex:
Yeah, absolutely. I think that’s, that’s the best way to source stories is once you get in the habit of looking for them, you’re really like, oh my God, as soon as you have that feeling like I need need to tell someone about this, like, I need to tell my friend about this.
Oh my God, this is going to be hilarious over a glass of wine later. Those are the stories. You’re like, I’m just going to bank those.
I actually have a note in my phone that’s just random ideas.
Like, like one time an Uber driver said that I gave him Farmyard vibes and I was so confused about it and I texted it to my team. I’m like, I don’t know where we can use that.
And then she’s like, maybe it’s because you just look like you’re like a lover of all animals and you have empathy.
And that’s kind of like our mission. I’m like, use it. Like go for it. You know?
But I do think it, it is like, it is interesting when you start getting in that mindset of just like, like you hear someone say something or you have this funny anecdote with your partner or your friend and you’re like, I’m just going to take note of that.
Laura:
Yes, exactly. Just those little moments that might, and it might feel like, oh, this is only good for one sentence. You’ll usually find that it’s good for a lot more than that.
Like it starts like, even if it is just one sentence, great.
If you can tell a story in one sentence. Amazing, amazing. Super short, no one ever unsubscribed because your email was too short.
So great. But usually it will turn into more than that once you start writing it down.
And another, another thing that generates a lot of stories is if you’re doing something new in your life, like just learning something or you just, you know, took a one single, I don’t know, tutorial on like tying knots or I have a friend who wrote like a bunch of essays just on learning to speed read.
She took a speed reading course and it generated so much great material.
So any, anything that you’re learning, any kind of change in your life, a change that you’ve made? Something that has changed on you? Change is a big one.
Anytime I wrote an email, anytime I write an email with the word change in the subject line, it gets super high open rates.
Like my Oh, interesting. I think my most open email the past year was like, I’m making a big change.
And it was all it was about, I learned that drinking straws cause the same wrinkles as smoking and yeah, I learned this at the dermatologist.
No more straws and I’m no more straws. I’m only doing sippy cups.
Alex:
Weigh your wrinkles, drinking like you’re a baby, you know? I mean, they have no wrinkles. So that must be why.
Laura:
Exactly. That’s why, makes perfect sense.
Alex:
I love that. And it is a bit of a muscle. And I think too, one question I’d love to ask you, and I’m curious what your thoughts are on this is, you know, when you’re writing for yourself, you’re like, okay, it’s my personal life.
People are interested in that.
Do you have any advice that you would give to writers who are writing for somebody else to try to find stories either about or for an audience that isn’t their life or their audience?
Because you know, obviously in a perfect world, and I did this with my clients back when I would write is I would interview them and I would ask questions and I would follow them.
And my team’s so great at this. Like, I’ll post something on my Instagram story and the next thing I know it’s being used in an email.
Like, this is brilliant, they’re following me, they’re watching me.
But, you know, some clients are a little bit more behind the scenes or they don’t necessarily share a lot about what they do in their private life.
Do you have any advice for writers to source stories from other, you know, places maybe not their clients’ lives?
Laura:
Well, first of all, I do think that that’s a great method as interviewing your client.
Or you could give them a, like a survey every month or so to gather, to gather stories.
Like even if they say, I have no stories, I have nothing new for you.
If they like go through these questions, like I’m going to tell you, like at the end you’ll ask me if I have anything that, you know, to give the audience.
And I will mention this guide that I have called Story Goldmine. And it’s full of, it’s like 63 different prompts to mine your everyday life for stories that sell.
And you could hand this to a client and say like, fill this in or like, you know, a few of ’em at a time, if it’s going to overwhelm them.
But it doesn’t, like, stories don’t always have to be from the person’s life.
They can be about like success stories of their clients or a story that they love about, you know, a storythat they’ve heard told people repeat stories all thetime like this.
I just saw thispolitician Corey Bookeron Instagram or TikTok talking about like, telling this story that I’d heard before about someone at the airport sayinglike, cutting the line at the, you know, at the desk and at the gate.
And people saying like, what, what are you doing?
You’re cutting the line. He like goes right up to the TSA agent. He is like, you know, well, do you know who I am?
And you know, she gave him crap and he was like, don’t you know who I am?
And then she got on the mic and said, you know, excuse me, like paging everyone in the airport.
We have a, you know, we have a, a passenger here who doesn’t know who he is, can anyone please come help?
And so I told that terribly, but he told it great. But like, just stories like that, like yeah.
Apocryphal stories, stories of some people love sports stories or stories about Henry Ford or you know, things about history and those are legit too.
As long as they’re told in the client’s voice and point of view. And that’s up to you to bring forth. And it’s also how you frame it.
Like, would the client say I heard this story recently from, you know, so and so and I can’t stop thinking about it.
Or would it be like, one story that has always inspired me exactly whenever I’m in a rut is blank. Like, how do they frame it?
And then that’s how you get in the client’s point of view.
Alex:
My content writer just wrote an email about, like, she saw in my story that I went to Costco and I was like super stressed out.
’cause I was like, I thought going on a Thursday was going to be better than going on a Friday. And it was like, big mistake.
And then I was like, and this, there’s samples everywhere and it’s just like mayhem.
And she somehow turned likethe Costco sample lady story into an email and I was like, this is genius. And it does, it does take, you know, practice.
But you know, even with your Story Goldmine, which we’ll talk about here in a second, like you could take those questions and literally just every day send a voice note to your client and be like, what about this?
You know? And then that way you’re not sending them this big long homework because anybody who runs a business or works with clients who runs businesses know the last thing.
Like, they’re going to put that off if you send them a list of 60 questions. But if you just ask them like drip campaign, Hey, what do you think about this voice note, transcribe it, slack transcribes all these apps now make it so easy.
So I absolutely love that advice. It’s so good. So
Laura:
Next, it could be like, I just got inspired by it.
It could be like, what’s the best thing that happened to you this week? What’s the most annoying thing that happened to you this week?
What are the last five things you spent money on? Like, just very easy to answer questions and those can turn into stories.
Alex:
You know, anything like that can be turned into a story and it’s just relatable. People are like, oh my god, me too.
My dog barks at everything, you know? Right. Yeah.
And I think, like my last thought on that is, I think oftentimes we get by the word story because we’re thinking, you know, maybe like journalistically or we’re thinking, oh, this has to be like the hero’s journey, or this has to be some epic story arch and framework.
And it’s like, no, no, no, no, no. There’s stories like you’re like, you’re, you know, writing a movie plot.
Yes. But then there’s also just like anecdotes and everyday little nuggets of, of experiences that you can share with people that again, that is value that is valuable if you’re making anyone feel any sort f type of way that they’re enjoying reading your email, that is value.
Laura:
Yes, exactly. And it does not have to be an epic or a beginning, middle, and end.
That’s not the only kind of story you can inject one line of story.
Like, you know, it’s just started pouring and I forgot to cover the lawn furniture, the cushions.
So I’m going to, I’m going to make this quick.
Or just anything like that atmospheric story or just like one little line of story is sometimes all you need to make something cha change it from just dry information to personable and interesting.
Alex:
So the next question I want to ask you has to do with your subject lines, because I told you this before when we, when we spoke that, oh my God, every time I get an email from your email list, I’m like, is Laura emailing me?
Because the subject lines are so good that I literally open them and then I’m like, oh, this is a marketing email. But I still read it all. I still love it and it still does feel like it’s coming directly to me.
Where do you find great inspiration for just amazing subject lines?
Laura:
Well, usually, and, and this is, this is why I, like, I switched to ActiveCampaign for a while from ConvertKit and one thing I really hated about it, I won’t go on a rant about other things I hated. One thing I really hated was that when you started an email, it would ask you for your subject line.
And almost, I would say 95% of the time, I was like, I don’t know until I’ve written the email or until I’ve written most of it, or halfway.
So I usually pull the subject line from somewhere in the email.
And if I have something that I start with that I really, it’s just a subject line that I saw somewhere else, like in a personal subject, in a personal email, which is where I get a lot of them.
And want it to make, want the email to make sense with it and not feel like misleading clickbait. Then I’ll insert something in the email to make sense. That it answers to that.
Like, well, what about the subject line?
But so often it’ll come from what I’m writing, but sometimes it is like from, like, somebody emailed me the other day, a friend emailed me the other day for advice and her subject line said, you’re a business genius.
And, and I was like, wow, that’s great. Oh, right. I’m going to use that. She didn’t use it for her newsletter, she used it just to me.
I’m like, well, that’s the subject line I’m going to steal.
And often I’ve gone through, like gone back when I’m feeling totally uninspired,
I go back to my earliest like, you know, flip my inbox to reverse order from oldest to news and see the ones from like 2006, 2007 that were when friends used to email each other.
Now we just text now, now we only email each other if we’re going to forward something generally or an invitation, but back then we would email everything.
And so that’s where I find the most compelling,personable friend to a friend subject lines like have to cancel, you know, frowny face or like, I’m being mean, or That’s so good. Or like, oh my god, so good. Like OMG worst pick ever. You know, those kinds of things are what we used to email to each other.
So those are great.
Alex:
Worst, worst pick ever. That’s definitely, I have emailed like untag me immediately.
Laura:
Yes. Yes, exactly. Please untag me. That’s a good one.
Alex:
You now what I have to tell you, this story is, so you sent out an email recently and the whole premise of the email was, was what you’re saying.
It’s like, Hey, look to your personal emails for inspiration on subject lines.
Because if you got it in a personal email and you opened it, maybe if you’re writing an email to your list, like they, they’ll open it.
So immediately I did this. I’m like, who emails me like that isn’t a marketer, like a confirmation for a flight or something.
I’m like, my dad, he emails me all the time.
I literally went to my inbox and I went and I scrolled, or I put in my dad’s name and all these emails pull up and immediately one caught my attention and the subject line was, “A few things need your attention.” And I used that
And I was like, you’re such a dad thing. Thanks dad. I’ll make sure to pay quick attention to that.
But, but the email really was about like, Hey, here’s a couple important reminders about things.
And so I said, A few, a few things need your attention. And I’m like, genius. So thank you for that little tip.
I literally put it in place like immediately after reading your email. So perfect. So good.
But that’s just it, you know, I think people tend to over overthink it, but it’s like, if I want to write a personable email that people open and read, what are the emails that I open and read the personal emails that I get?
Laura:
Yes. And like, it’s, it’s different if you’re writing an article or a blog post, then you want a title and you want to say exactly what the article or post is about so they know immediately from the title subject lines are different.
You don’t all, like, most of the time you open it because you don’t know what this is about.. But you are intrigued. You’re like, yeah, I got to see what that’s about.
Alex:
Yeah, exactly. I love that. So good. So, so good.
Okay, so we’ve already sort of sprinkled the, this incredible, you know, gift that you’re, that you’re giving to the Posse community. Can you talk a little bit about your story goldmine?
And we’re going to put a link to that so everyone watching this can go get your hands on this awesome resource to help you source endless stories for your emails.
Laura:
Yeah, you bet. Okay, so Story Goldmine is 63 surprising places to mine your everyday life for stories that sell.
And so it is a big old list of prompts that you’re going to just look through and immediately start thinking, oh, I do have stories to tell.
You know, it might be anything you’ve changed in your life recently, like a new habit or practice or a word or phrase you’ve adopted or dropped or hate or something that changed in your life.
Not necessarily you’re doing like, you know, I wrote a series of emails about my neighbor’s kids starting drum lessons at age three right above my office.
They built him a drum room above my office. And that was a good one. Or observations around you about yourself.
And we would be for eavesdropping, like a conversation you overheard or just something that you noticed in nature.
Some like some people love nature metaphors, a bunch of those recent experiences like, you know, a pattern, you don’t know what to make of like, oh, I keep finding $20 bills on the street, what is going on? I mean, if you travel any, any kind of travel experiences that’s such a rich place seriously to mine for.
And then of course, past experiences, like something you weren’t allowed to do as a kid or a thought you used to have that you now know isn’t true.
There’s so many places in your life that will generate stories.
And so if you start thinking I’m a like, I have a boring life. I’m a boring person. Nothing happens in my life. I live in a boring town.
You know, there aren’t people doing crazy things and saying crazy things on the street. You don’t need any of that. Your life has is just full of stories.
And unless you say like, I don’t, you know, I don’t like people, I don’t have friends, there is nothing I would ever tell a friend. I have nothing to say to anybody about anything.
Well then maybe you’re not cut out for this.
Alex:
I love that so much ’cause it, it really is just having those prompts. Like if someone says to you, Laura, tell me a story.
It’s like, oh, it’s like someone’s saying, tell me a joke and you immediately go back to like, knock, knock, like this like childhood joke that’s like the only joke you remember, but you’re like, that’s so hard.
But you know, it doesn’t mean that you’re not funny. It doesn’t mean that you don’t have stories.
It just means you need to get your gears going in another direction before you can actually share the value.
So those prompts are so in, so insanely valuable and I’m excited for everyone to use them.
And we are going so much deeper into all of this at Posse Fest, you’re going to be doing a whole presentation on your email marketing magic, how to write emails that get your list clicking and buying and drooling over every word.
And how you, you know, use stories to sell and how you, you know, create
just an incredible, incredible vibe on your email list.
I love it. Like I am, I’m on so many email lists and you, your email by read time and time again, and I’m like, I need to get Laura at Posse Fest talking about email marketing.
So all of you who have not bought your ticket yet, go and grab your ticket to Posse Fest, come hang out with me and Laura and the rest of the speakers.
We are going to have so much fun. Laura, thank you so much for doing this interview.
I know we could keep going and going and going. I’m just such a big fan of you and everything you do.
Where can everyone listening other than downloading your story goldmine go to learn more about you and just see what you’re up to?
Laura:
Yeah, well come on over to Talkingshrimp.com and you will see other freebies there too, and also be able to get on my list.
By the way, I have a guide to subject lines, non-sucky subject lines that you’ll also want. But that is where you’ll find story goldmine. Talkingshrimp.com/story-goldmine.
And then, and then my, I would say on social, my main home headquarters is Instagram still and also threads. So you can come find me there at @Laura Belgray.
Alex:
Amazing. I love it. I love it. I love it. Thank you Laura for being here with me and the Posse.Thank you. And I will see you very soon at Posse Fest.
